(no subject)

[ivyfic]

I just watched Fantastic Four. Wow. What a piece of shit. I'm not even going to put this behind a spoiler tag because there's just no point in discussing the numerous (giant gaping) plot holes. If I try to come up with reasons why a reasonable, intelligent character would do any of these actions, the movie completely comes apart. Oh, wait -- I forgot. None of these characters have personalities. They just exist to fit stereotypes and move the plot forward.

So, in conclusion, I'll just sit back and watch the pretty. And by that I mean Ioan. Even if they did miss a perfect opportunity for some serious woobie moments by undermining the pathos with bad special effects, but whatever.

Comments

[ecmyers.livejournal.com]

I thought it did a pretty good job of capturing the humor of the comics. While the plot obviously departed quite a bit in all but the most basic ways (their powers seem about right) I was more interested in the spirit of the thing. I had a good time with it. I was also in a better mood because I didn't pay to see it, but that wasn't enough to get me to like The Island.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

I don't really know the comics, so I can't judge. I netflixed it so I only paid opportunity cost to see it, really. And a little Ioan is worth that.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Awww, I quite liked Fantastic Four. Ioan was adorable, I thought the human torch kid was pretty funny, and I loved Michael Chiklis as the Thing. A little on the angsty side, I grant you (and the villain guy chewed scenery more than a herd of cows), but over all fun.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Ioan, adorable, yes, as always. I was mostly annoyed by the beefcakehuman torch because he was stealing screen time that Mr. Fantastic rightfully deserved.

A little on the angsty side? My god. That whole plot was horrifying to behold. Mostly because it made the thing an easily manipulated idiot. And I can't respect him as a character if he's going to turn on his friends with that little provocation. Never mind the fact that turning into The Thing seemed to damage the grammar centers in his brain. This movie was also collosally high on the collateral damage scale. Again -- the heroes look like morons because their best problem-solving ideas seem to involve not just property damage but endangering as many civilians as possible.

And the villain. Oh, Doom. Oh, oh, Doom. I'm curious now as to how someone could possibly write "pro-Doom" fic, cause WTF? He just follows the cookie-cutter mold -- gets super powers, goes on killing spree, fixates on our heroes. I would have appreciated a little subtlety. He's a business mogul. He should be able to destroy Reed without resorting to bad blue makeup -- er, I mean liquid nitrogen.

For me, yeah, this was entertaining, but I got no sense at all of who these characters were as people. They had no depth and nothing to make me want to examine them further. So, unlike a movie like Constantine which obviously melts my brain, this just leaves me with a *shrug* feeling.

I'm still not forgiving them for blowing the Mr.-Fantastic-foolishly-sacrifices-himself-to-test-his-theory moment by making his face droop hideously with CGI. And then after that, there don't seem to be any other repurcussions! It made him faint! That was it! Wasn't it supposed to radically change him or something?

And what about when The Thing starts a traffic jam and the other characters, stuck in the traffic jam, know (psychically, I presume) that it's Mike in trouble. WTF?

OK, I said I wouldn't enumerate the plot holes. I'm stopping now. Really, I am.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Okay, yeah, no plot-hole enumeration, that's #1 with any superhero movie. You'd be surprised how many times I had to answer "Dramatic license!" when I was watching Batman Begins with my friend, theKathy, and that's one of the better movies when it comes to plot/character incongruities. I'm more bothered by the strange time dilation/compression issues in the film, myself (how does Ben Grimm get turned into the Thing, get across town from the Baxter Building, and arrive to save the day all during one battle between the Invisible Woman and Dr. Doom?)

And give in already: the Human Torch kid was cute. I like Ioan, too, and I found Johnny hilarious. It was one of the things that surprised me most, actually, because that sort of character is usually the first to get on my nerves. I had to give the actor mad props for his bravado--it came off as completely natural, not exaggerated wink-wink, oh-look-at-how-he-set-that-up ha-ha funny. One of the funniest scenes in the film--still makes me laugh on repeat viewings--is when he gets Ben to slop himself with cream in the face. His look of pure triumph is so funny.

And even though I found Jessica Alba's Sue Storm teeth-grindingly terrible and whiny, I thought they had some genuine sibling-esque moments. "Cut it out! All right?" "All right." "God!" "God." "What?" "What?" Hee. I have had so many fights with my sister that went that way (unfortunately for me, she would be doing Johnny's part in most of them).

As for Dr. Doom, well, when I posted about seeing Fantastic Four, I got thoroughly educated as to how bad they slaughtered his character, so I can't possibly defend him. It was terribly done, even before you realize what they butchered as a back story from the comics. I think Julian McMahon was nominated for (won?) a Razzie for worst villain that year.

How are people ProDoom? Because they're stupid fangirls and think the guy is hot. Plus, he's a tragically deformed beautiful man, who is really just misunderstood and needs only the love of a good woman, etc etc etc. In fandom, "Ours is not to reason why..." and you know how that one ends.

I still ::heart:: Michael Chiklis. The whole thing with his fiance was overwrought, I grant you (you want to talk about plot holes? The hell you say she'd walk out of her house in that nightie in New York...), but the Thing was for a long time a melodramatic figure for being so physically distorted. I think it helps in the comics that a) there are some benefits to being as strong as he is, and b) the comic world is full of deformed-yet-famous heroes enough to shake some of his "woe is me"-ism.

Still, JMS wrote and arc where it was Ben alone who could communicate with some super-being from another part of the universe (at first; of course, Reed figured out how to relate to the creature soon enough) because he was the only one that the being felt understood what it was like to be so lonely. So yeah, overwrought, but canon.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

no plot-hole enumeration, that's #1 with any superhero movie
Yes, but at least in Batman Begins the plot holes were strictly mechanical. They were about how Ducard tries to destroy Gotham, not about why he was trying to do it. The character arcs were flawless. And in that case, I'm willing to wink at a lot.

I could not stand the Thing story line. I'm fine with superhero alienation (hello, Spider-Man 2), but there was nothing in that story that wasn't a cliche. And I can't be terribly sympathetic with a character that is just a moron. They could have sold me on the Thing turning on Mr. Fantastic, but it would have taken a lot more development. It felt to me like this was a movie that was trying to be about the Thing but couldn't because it had four other leads to focus on, so the Thing's story got so stripped down that the character motivations are no longer logical.

Also - he (for no good reason) gets turned back into human. (I'm not even going to dwell on the fact that if you were exposed to deadly radiation, and then exposed to more radiation, you would die, even if the wavelengths were "reversed." If you're talking about two waves cancelling each other out, they would have to be simultaneous, a la noise-cancelling headphones. Doing it later would do nothing. Besides - how would he even know what the wavelengths he was exposed to were? Not to mention - if he has a machine that duplicates exactly the solar storm, why'd he go up in space in the first place? See, not dwelling. This is comic book physics, after all.) But then, having achieved what he wanted, he pops himself back into the Thing? Why did it turn him back exactly? And it took days the first time he transformed. Why was this instantaneous? And why'd it work without Dr. Doom? And if it does work like that, they've created a plot device like "the chamber" in Superman 2 that can remove or put back his powers at will. So the Four could take their powers on and off like a shirt. Or anyone else could do it too, for that matter.

You see? For one story point they've created a device with radical implications that make most other plots not work. It's like the transporter de-aging Dr. Polaski. Or Picard beaming out "energy only" and them just restoring his pattern from a previous beaming.

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

But then, having achieved what he wanted, he pops himself back into the Thing? Why did it turn him back exactly? And it took days the first time he transformed. Why was this instantaneous? And why'd it work without Dr. Doom? And if it does work like that, they've created a plot device like "the chamber" in Superman 2 that can remove or put back his powers at will. So the Four could take their powers on and off like a shirt. Or anyone else could do it too, for that matter.

That's basically what I meant about still having reservations when it came to time-lining the whole thing. For the original transformations, it's not surprising that Ben is last. If you go with the traditional interpretations of why the Four have the powers they do--which, to my understanding is that they represent the elemental whole of earth, air, fire, and water (Ben, Susan, Johnny, Reed)--then it makes sense Ben takes so long to change (water, air, and fire are all very active elements, earth being the most inert and hardest to get moving).

But then it takes a machine only a few minutes to undo what took days in Ben? Hrm. I suspect the machine is a lot more complicated than it's represented as being for that to be the case. And as for the power issue...just assume I'm rolling my eyes as much as you.

Besides - how would he even know what the wavelengths he was exposed to were? Not to mention - if he has a machine that duplicates exactly the solar storm, why'd he go up in space in the first place?

I had the same questions after I saw it more than once. How did Reed figure that out. The movie went out of its way to make him look like he was smart but fell apart in the numbers of things, so really, his silly machine should have killed him.

It was a comment Harlon made that made me consider another option: according to canon stats, Mr. Fantastic got about a jillion times smarter (as if he needed to) after the accident. So, perhaps he wasn't able to do anything before the trip but, with the data collected from space plus an increase in his basic cognitive ability, he was.

This is the part I love about these movies, trying to figure out where you can insert real science; my theory of why Mr. Fantastic is smarter is because he is able to manipulate his neurons to shorten response time--literally, he's thinking and interpreting quicker, which would lead to more rapid insight, and thus progress. In Ultimate Fantastic Four Reed's able to adjust the lens in his eyes with sufficient concentration, so, if he's thinking really hard and would therefore be concentrating really hard, he could probably will himself to maintain a physical change that would assist him in thinking faster and better. SCIENCE IS SO FUN!

Then again, if you go with Ultimate FF, Reed also has no internal organs so none of that makes sense at all. Oh well.

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Wait - water is rubber?

[trinityvixen.livejournal.com]

Well...sorta.

Basically, Reed fulfills the definition of a liquid (ability to fit to any shape without the tendency to disperse, etc), the rest of them match fairly well to the other elements, so, yes, he's water. Or as close to as someone with normal human dimensions is likely to get. The closest you come outside of Reed Richards is Bobby Drake, and I'm not sure the comics ever turned him into water, just ice (a great fanfic by Valerie Jones did though, whooboy).